[conquest] 8.0.1q is now available.

[David W. Payne]

I think whomever started this thread should of had the decency
to post this to the conquest mailing list.  We NEED to make
use of that list and get others on it too.

Look below for my two cents worth.

Jon Trulson wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Almighty Tallest Cataboligne wrote:
>
>>>          - When a team is geno'd, all armies of that team still
>>>            residing on live ships are also destroyed.  A message is
>>>            sent to a team when it is genocided notifying them of this.
>>
>>
>> Dont  you mean vacant ships?
>> I mean if I'm live and in the game, and going to beam down to a
>> planet, the armies better NOT dissappear from my ship...  And there is
>> simply no previous existing in game rule,  or even trek-lore based
>> logic for this.
>
>
>     The only logic for this was a discussion with Dave and I on what 
> should happen... ie: currently you can always avoid having to do a 
> coup by simply loading up a dummy ship with armies and stash it away 
> somewhere. We thought simply removing the armies from all ships (of 
> the geno'd team) was a good way to prevent this tactic.  I do not know 
> if this tactic has ever been used, but I didn't want to provide 
> another reason to use a multi.
>
>     I've CC'd dave on this.
>
>     The thinking being, what are you doing flying around with armies 
> when your last planet is going down?
>
>     I am certainly open to discussion on this, I was trying to not 
> create even more reasons to create/use a dummy ship.  Do you think 
> this should only be applied to vacant ships?  Dave?
>
A player or team should not be  allowed to load a dummy ship with 
armies.  That
is insurance against genocide and having to coup, just poor play.

A player/team that is going down should not be allowed the insurance of 
carrying
armies around to avoid having to coup.  That player/team should be 
working hard
at defending team planets. 

Why shouldn't the armies disappear?  The civilization the armies were a 
part of
just disappeared......  The only reason we can't do that with the ships 
themselves
is that the ships are associated with the user in the game.  A 
player/user would be
very annoyed at losing a high kill ship just because his last planet was 
taken and a
genocide occurred.

It would be frustrating if you were trying to defend your civilization 
by getting some
armies and running to a different part of the galaxy, just to have them 
disappear before
you could beam them down to a new planet.  But think about it.  You 
should have done
a better job planning ahead placing armies on planets (with the 
additional cost of having
to defend them with ships).  And you should have done a better job 
initially of defending
your team planets to avoid genocide.  And the name of this game is 
CONQUEST.  Not
INSURANCE!

Sure you can run off with some armies when you face superior odds.  I 
know I've done it
myself.   It's just that you have to get to another planet, bomb it and 
beam down your armies. 
You better move fast.......
That is fair and life isn't fair anyway.

Armies are not "crew".  Logically, armies may be transported to around 
but they need to be
on planets to properly train and take care of themselves.  Can't see 
logically leaving armies
on ships and expecting them to fight worth a darn.  I'm just saying 
armies should not have
a long ship life..... ;-)

And a cloaked ship at warp 0 and not orbiting is not detectable at all.  
Before we went
client/server we could triangulate using a couple of live ships and 
eventually find the
cloaker.  But until and unless we can bring that functionality back in 
client/server the
cloakers have just too much of an advantage.

A few options exist in my opinion. 
1) This could be a run-time option like doomsday machine and 
slingshot......    I think we
should actually make a decision and implement it.  This option is wishy 
washy......
2) Make the ship carrying armies non cloakable, the logic being that the 
power needed to
maintain and transport armies is just too high to allow cloaking at the 
same time.  But that
would change the logic of how people using cloaking now. 
3) Put a timer on life expectancy of ship armies of team genocided ships 
to give the player/user
 a chance to populate/reconquer some planet (5 min).

I personally believe that coup time should be limited to five to seven 
or eight minutes tops.
I recently ran into a 25 minute period for reorganizing after a failed 
coup and that was
way, way too long.

>> There's the Tholian Web, but that would mean a part of space was going
>> into interphase...not that having a part of space interphasing isnt a
>> worthwhile idea.  Maybe where a large amount of weapon fire has
>> occured.
>>
>> Hmm, on second thought why would vacant ships lose armies?  Hunting
>> cloaked ships that have been vacated is a valid strategy.  More so if
>> they are suspected carriers.
>
>
>     The problem is that you will never know if they are carriers... 
> Hunting cloaked ships is good, yes.  Do you think it's good to have a 
> cloaked carrier hiding somewhere so that a team can avoid couping?
>
>
>>
>> I'm not sure this will be a very popular change...
>
>
>     I'm not sure it's ever happened in real-life anyway, so I didn't 
> think anyone would really care.  Ususally if your last planet is under 
> attack, your whole team needs to be defending it.
>
>     As I said, I am not married to this.  I certainly do not believe 
> vacant ships should keep their armies if the team is geno'd.  I 
> believe it's best that a team on the verge of a geno should be 
> concentrating on defense rather than avoiding having to do a coup with 
> dummy ships and stashed armies.
>
>     Of course, if your planet was about to be geno'd and another team 
> ship has armies they are going to put on another planet... Hmm.
>
>     Let's discuss/agree on a proper course of action.
>
>> I would just leave the geno logic for bombing all planet based armies
>> and not count ship carried armies...they could be considered part of
>> the crew.
>
>
>     But they aren't :)  Also, I don't really like the idea of a 
> cloaked carrier sitting out there somewhere just so the team can avoid 
> a coup. But, as I said, I am not married to it :)
>
>

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#include <std/disclaimer.h>